Muddy Waters

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Posts by Muddy Waters

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  44

  New letter about Circuit Conventions accounting procedures

  by Hecce in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i hope that one of the friends will post the letter soon.

  i heard that on 3/27/2017 a letter with new instructions about the accounts at the circuit conventions was released.

  the letter seems to adopt many of the corrections that had been suggested here at the forum, among other things during the accounts report they will be no mention of the per capita and the amount due is going to be released only to the elders.

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  Muddy Waters

  Pardon my ignorance, very embarrassing, but what does "per capita" mean..?
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  26

  Russia and the letter writing

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the whole of the instructions that the watchtower gave jws when writing to russian officials -.

  content • you are writing to the official to request his intervention.

  express the hope that the russian authorities will stop the legal action being taken against the branch office and the congregations in russia so that our brothers and sisters can continue to gather peacefully for christian meetings without interference.

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  Muddy Waters

  Ha, I like this comment over there*, but wonder how long it will stay up:

  "Putin should know " the truth", all of it -- the shunning rule which break up families; the disdain for higher education; the two-witness rule applying even in instances of child sexual abuse, as explained in their own (secret) elder's book; their extreme stance regarding blood transfusions which apply to little children as well; the way they contribute nothing to the physical well-being of their members or provide any real charity the way most people understand charity... I could go on."

  
  

  * http://blog.ministryideaz.com/2017/03/russian-persecution-jehovahs-witnesses.html

  
  

  
  
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  33

  The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

  they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

  then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

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  Muddy Waters

  Finklestein, your post (on page 1) really hit home for me ... re: your comments about JWs, from top to bottom, being liars, wittingly or not.

  When I was "waking up" from my mental bondage, I remember talking to some new friends about the JW religion, and the first thing one of the ladies said was "Oh! Those Jehovah's Witnesss!! They LIE!!!! Oh do they lie!! They are LIARS..!! Nothing but a bunch of liars..!!!!!"

  And I remember feeling taken aback and wondering what she could mean.... (yes, I know... my waking up was a very long process! But now I understand completely, and she was quite right!)

  I would love to talk to her now and find out to want she was referring, anything specific or examples, or people she knew, etc. It was a profound moment for me, at the time, to hear her say that JWs are all liars.... It brought me to a new level of self-examination & awareness and psychological development, if you will. It was a rude awakening....
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  Muddy Waters

  So true, Orphan Crow. The indoctrinated JW has such an implacable hardness of heart and they don't even realize it. They don't even see it.

  The JW mindset is to think: poor worldly people, they don't understand our shunning policies, how it is a "protection" and that making a "stand" isn't easy, but necessary to uphold Jehovahs righteous principles...

  When McClelland repeatedly said it was CRUEL, there was no getting through the JW fog. The JW brain cannot or will not accept that shunning is cruel, they believe they are righteously upholding Jehovah's principles, however difficult that may be for them.

  Same thing for the 2 witness rule. The scripture whch says, "At the mouth of two witnesses, let every matter be established." is taken as gold, and that includes the heinous crime of child sexual abuse.

  The organization is held up as God, and all its policies (man-made/man interpreted) are held to be also inspired/divinely directed and thus to be followed as if the organization's crap policies are also the word of God. And "God's Organization" must be protected and kept above reproach - for a fine witness - !! -- to all the nations.

  It's a sad and despicable way they treat their most vulnerable, trusting members of all, their *children*....

  The only thing WT ultimately understands is their bottom line, their profit margins, so I say, hit 'em where it hurts. Make them redress financially the utmost needs of these people and children who have been hurt, damaged, and betrayed by WT policies and crap interpretations.
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  Muddy Waters

  It also looks like WT won't budge on their utterly stupid, heartless "two-witness" rule -- even when Stewart/McClellan tried asking about TRAUMA of the child (emotional and PHYSICAL) being a "witness" to their experience, Spinks and O'Brien couldn't wrap their head around that and couldn't accept it.

  ...

  Spinks also repeatedly saying things like, "That's a good point.. I'll take note of that, take it onboard, bring it up (to whomever)..." -and that they (he and O'Brien) could not change policy - It makes one wonder why the hell wouldn't WT send someone to the Royal Commision who can change policy?? Stupid WT!! -- bumbling, secretive, idiot, clueless cultists.
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  Muddy Waters

  Thank you, Orphan Crow.... That probably was it for now...
  
  And did you also pick up something about a new law or procedure in Australia and neither Spinks nor O'Brien were aware of it! Stewart & McClellan seemed very surprised.
  
  And it was bizarre to hear O'Brien talking about "redress" or money going to be given to WT's victims of child sexual abuse to help them with their care or counselling.
  
  At the end, it looked like McClellan seemed almost eager to unleash some punitive measures, you could see him flexing his hands and getting ready to give WT a good what-for. Did anyone else get that impression...?
  
  And to hear Spinks' voice trembling so many times as he tried explaining the unexplainable.... Poor buggers, thinking they're taking a "stand for the truth" or whatever, and WT wouldn't even lift a finger to help them out. Nice "worldwide brotherhood"....
  
  Anyway, I've been looking forward to this!! It was great to see and hear Stewart & McClellan in action again!
  
  
  
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  49

  ARC Case Study 54 - Witness List published for 10 March 2017

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

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  Muddy Waters

  It's like WT has thrown them under the bus, thrown them to "the wolves", not one representative from Brooklyn or wherever the hell they live now was "available". And Spinks & O'Brien are getting eaten alive!
  You can almost feel sorry for them, poor indoctrinated, brainwashed fools.
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  1

  ARC - Case Study 54 - Opening Address by Angus Stewart QC published and available to download

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  downloads available:.

  download opening address by angus stewart qc - word doc.

  download opening address by angus stewart qc - pdf.

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  Muddy Waters

  This is GREAT! Thank you!!!
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  Muddy Waters

  When will it resume...??

  It was pathetic.... Spinks could never give a straight answer....
  
  It's like WT has thrown them under the bus, and they are getting eaten alive! All these new "letters" and directions from the Society (within only the past TWO WEEKS!) to get ready for today (presumably). Unbelievable!!
  
  Just like they hadn't prepared for the first time around, though in some ways they were better prepared today, but their organization sure dropped the ball. You could almost wonder if they'd been groomed to parrot special phrases repeatedly: "Yes, we will absolutely report child sexual abuse if there are mandatory reporting laws to do so."
  
  And when the judge asked Spinks/O'Brien, "But why should you need a law to do so...? What about basic compassion for the victim, and seeing they get the help and protection they need?" (paraphrasing), It was like that was a whole new weird idea to them....
  
  And LOVED the point about the age of consent, and that if the law had a specific limit for that, then why not simply follow the law...? (They were talking about a minor who could be found "guilty" of sexual misconduct because they would be close to the legal age... And Mr. Steward and McClellan tried to press them on what, exactly, would be an age considered to be "responsible" (or giving consent)....?
  
  Lots of gems brought out.
  
  Loved the part too, where Mr. Stewart was expressing frustration about trying to find anything on a new policy that was in writing somewhere, without the WTS referencing out-of-date (regarding these new policies) publications and materials and elders-only letters.
  
  Oh, there was so much gold in these first few hours....!!
  
  When will it resume?? I don't want to miss a second of this fascinating, and unbelievably inept (on the part of WT/JWs) hearing!!!
  
  
  
  
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  12

  "You know that the Memorial is April 11 right?"

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ah, yes, so mid-way through a conversation about work, a family member just had to say "oh, you know the memorial is tuesday april 11, so i guess you will have to schedule your work so you can make it right?".

  i simply said "oh is it?

  " and then went back to what we were talking about.. has anyone else had the pressure to attend put on them?.

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  Muddy Waters

  Unstuck, you have a pm...